About the Police

[teddywolf]

One of the recent flaps that has gone back and forth between real life and online has tangentially brought up attitudes toward the police. One of the important things about modern civic police forces is that they gain their legitimacy through fair, nondiscriminatory and effective police work. So, I wanted to ask people at large.

You can make comments below. People can comment anonymously here. And for anybody who is coming here for the first time and is worried, I have never worked for or with any law enforcement agency and do not currently work for or with one.

[Poll #1974926]

Comments

[vvalkyri.livejournal.com]

I generally trust the police more than several of my guy friends do, in that I will approach police for directions, for "Hey, there is a comic shop that is supposed to be near here" for "there is this burger joint I thought was right here" and in those cases my male companion (different ones) tended to be wary and then boggled about how the officer knew exactly where the comic shop was near penns station or didn't know which burger joint I was talking about (it turned out to be several blocks from where I thought it was) but pointed out a great one down that particular block.

I have been pulled over while horribly lost and given a warning and directions. More than once. I was once dehydrated and overtired and pulled over for erratic and a registration I didn't know was out of date, and got a warning for the latter ...despite having accidentally left my drivers license in the bag I had taken to the rally to restore sanity so he was working off a scanned license from my glove compartment. (I was scolded for this, but the fact that I wasn't arrested implies to me it was a proven good idea.)

When I crashed my car at the beginning of may the park police officer waited with me for AAA and once he realized that I lived right next to where he was allowed to drive, drove me home. When my first car was totaled the police officer (who ticketed the other driver) drove me and some stuff to the alumnae picnic where I knew my mom would be. (Set off her car alarm as well, but that is different.)

That all said, I am also well aware of how even white /guys/ experience the police (a non drinking friend recently had a horrid experience in MA with a sobriety checkpoint) and why a black friend of mine never ever leaves his house without ID.

And I know how many people unjustly convicted for stuff started out trying to be helpful and answering questions, and that one should never talk with police re a crime.

And I know that one should never consent to a search without warrant, close the door behind you while answering a, say, noise complaint.

That the last thing any homeowner should want, especially in a situation where they haven't control over who may have brought what into their house, is the police arriving.

Re the stuff that created this conversation, the insistence that "hey, unless someone is actively doing something let us make a call re police" is tantamount to "we're good with endangering you" is disingenuous as best.

[bikergeek.livejournal.com]

one should never talk with police re a crime

This is very long. It's 48 minutes, approximately the length of a standard college class hour, but it's worth a watch. You may have seen it, because it went viral over the internet some while back: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-7o9xYp7eE

I'm not sure I agree with it entirely; I think it mostly applies to situations where the police initiated contact with you rather than the other way around. Mostly "Hey, I came home and my 52" flat-screen and home theater setup were gone, along with my Macbook" versus "Ms. Vvalkyri, your neighbor's condo was broken into and we'd like to ask you a few questions...."

[vvalkyri.livejournal.com]

I kept that open in a tab for ages, but I rarely have patience for having to listen or worse watch something rather than read. I figure I have the gist of it, but perhaps I will play it on the iPad while doing something else. Does it work okay as audio only?

[bikergeek.livejournal.com]

It's been a while since I've watched it in its entirety. I know there are some slides. It's also broken into two halves, one is a lecture from James Duane and another is a lecture from a police officer (detective?) to whom the professor has given equal time for rebuttal. So at the very least, you can watch it in two sittings rather than one.

[achinhibitor.livejournal.com]

Certainly the video is a more-extreme piece of advice than whatever the average is, given the guy's specialization. The Wikipedia page gives a summary, which is presumably reasonably accurate:

"Duane says, inter alia, that: 1) even perfectly innocent citizens may get themselves into trouble even when the police are trying to do their jobs properly, because police malfeasance is entirely unnecessary for the innocent to convict themselves by mistake; 2) talking to police may bring up erroneous but believable evidence against even innocent witnesses; and 3) individuals convinced of their own innocence may have unknowingly committed a crime which they inadvertently confess to during questioning."

[achinhibitor.livejournal.com]

Interesting... I watched the first 15 minutes or so. I'm not impressed with the professor himself; there seems to be a lot of showmanship and he's pretty thin on hard data. His message seems to actually be "Don't say anything to the police if you have reason to think they suspect you of a crime.", although he phrases it in much more blanket (and inflammatory) terms. I don't know of any reason to believe that is incorrect.

Of course, his data is going to be skewed by being a criminal defense attorney. He hasn't been hanging around with nice people, and they're the people the police will be dealing with particularly badly.

The usual caveats should be applied: Beware if the police think of you as being intrinsically undesirable. Beware if the police think you've gotten away with a lot of crime. Beware if the police think of you as a certain sort of criminal who would be a good target for being framed for an instance of that sort of crime (that someone else committed). Don't get into dominance combat with a cop. Live your life so that a jury would find it intrinsically implausible that you would commit a crime (or at least, any crime you're not willing to take the heat for).

The system is there to protect the generic "you" (and that's only when it's working correctly). It's not there to protect you personally.