(no subject)

[teddywolf]

Today I was in my Imperialism class. The discussion went around the pre-modern empires and the notion of tribe. Historical tribe, by my professor's definition, is bound by bonds of blood. He brought up the Jews as the first historical pre-modern empire and, among other things, said that this was based on Jewish tribal notions which had no conversions until the modern era.

I decided I had to speak up at this point. I mentioned we had a strong history of conversions, even though they were less common before the modern era. I brought up Ruth, I brought up the Khazars, and mentioned that a number of converts were notable in our history. He then said, "Then why are you a tribe? You can't be G-d's Chosen People by blood while allowing others to join your tribe, it's not logical." I mentioned the distinction between religiously Jewish and Jewish by birth; he said the notions were still incompatible.

Do bear in mind I like my professor. He makes me think and is academically rigorous.

His definition of tribe is as something immutable, you are born to it or not, or might get forced into it by conflict.

I want to present to him examples of tribes that accepted in outsiders to become "of the tribe". I will be doing some research into this because I want to present it to him - yes, I have been looking. If any of you know of an historical example, off the top of your head, something not involving a marriage or slavery, I would appreciate a pointer. It could be somebody joining a Native American tribe, or brought into a particular African tribe, or a Chinese family, a Germanic village, what-have-you - in fact, the more diverse the better. I want to show that a tribe may have been primarily about blood but also could be something a person chose and, under exceptional circumstances, be accepted into.

Please feel free to signal boost this.

Comments

[mrgoodwraith.livejournal.com]

He brought up the Jews as the first historical pre-modern empire.

Um, no. The Akkadian, Sumerian, Mitanni (Hurrian), Hittite, Assyrian, Babylonian, and Egyptian empires all predated any "Empire of Israel" (if such a thing could ever be said to have existed).

"Then why are you a tribe? You can't be G-d's Chosen People by blood while allowing others to join your tribe, it's not logical."

This is simply boneheaded. Sure, genes from outsiders can be (and have been) viewed as undesirable or "dilutive," but if one's tribe is the Chosen Race, it is also possible to conclude that the tribe's genes are so powerful that they can dominate any outside genes (rather than vice versa).

I want to present to him examples of tribes that accepted in outsiders to become "of the tribe".

The Wikipedia "Proselyte" article has this helpful section:

"The Law of Moses made specific regulations regarding the admission into Israel's community of such as were not born Israelites. The Kenites, the Gibeonites, the Cherethites, and the Pelethites were thus admitted to levels of Israelite privileges. Thus also we hear of individual proselytes who rose to positions of prominence in the Kingdom of Israel, as of Doeg the Edomite, Uriah the Hittite, Araunah the Jebusite, Zelek the Ammonite, Ithmah and Ebedmelech the Ethiopians. According to the Books of Chronicles, in the time of Solomon (c.971-931 BCE) there were 153,600 proselytes in the land of Israel and the prophets speak of the time as coming when the proselytes shall share in all the privileges of Israel."

I've been trying to dig up Wikipedia examples of tribal adoption that don't involve slavery or capture, but I'm not having much luck.

[teddywolf.livejournal.com]

Thank you for the citations. Please don't feel you have to go out of your way to research this, the research is my job. I was asking for stuff you might remember off the top of your head - not that anything brought up is not appreciated, because it very much is.